Journals of the Senate
60 Elizabeth II, A.D. 2011, Canada
Journals of the Senate
1st Session, 41st Parliament
Issue 39
Thursday, December 8, 2011
1:30 p.m.
The Honourable Noël A. Kinsella, Speaker
The Members convened were:
The Honourable Senators
Andreychuk, Boisvenu, Braley, Brazeau, Callbeck, Carignan, Champagne, Chaput, Cochrane, Comeau, Cools, Cordy, Cowan, Dallaire, Dawson, Day, De Bané, Demers, Di Nino, Downe, Duffy, Dyck, Eaton, Eggleton, Fairbairn, Finley, Fortin-Duplessis, Fraser, Frum, Furey, Gerstein, Greene, Harb, Hervieux-Payette, Housakos, Hubley, Johnson, Joyal, Kinsella, Lang, LeBreton, Losier-Cool, Lovelace Nicholas, MacDonald, Manning, Marshall, Martin, Meighen, Mercer, Merchant, Meredith, Mockler, Moore, Munson, Nancy Ruth, Nolin, Ogilvie, Oliver, Patterson, Peterson, Plett, Poirier, Poy, Raine, Ringuette, Rivard, Rivest, Robichaud, Runciman, Segal, Seidman, Smith (Cobourg), Smith (Saurel), St. Germain, Stewart Olsen, Stratton, Tardif, Tkachuk, Verner, Wallace, Wallin, Watt, Zimmer
The Members in attendance to business were:
The Honourable Senators
Andreychuk, *Angus, *Banks, Boisvenu, Braley, Brazeau, *Brown, Callbeck, Carignan, Champagne, Chaput, Cochrane, Comeau, Cools, Cordy, Cowan, Dallaire, Dawson, Day, De Bané, Demers, Di Nino, Downe, Duffy, Dyck, Eaton, Eggleton, Fairbairn, Finley, Fortin-Duplessis, Fraser, Frum, Furey, Gerstein, Greene, Harb, Hervieux-Payette, Housakos, Hubley, Johnson, Joyal, Kinsella, Lang, LeBreton, Losier-Cool, Lovelace Nicholas, MacDonald, Manning, Marshall, Martin, *Massicotte, *McCoy, Meighen, Mercer, Merchant, Meredith, *Mitchell, Mockler, Moore, Munson, Nancy Ruth, *Neufeld, Nolin, Ogilvie, Oliver, Patterson, Peterson, Plett, Poirier, Poy, Raine, Ringuette, Rivard, Rivest, Robichaud, Runciman, Segal, Seidman, *Sibbeston, Smith (Cobourg), Smith (Saurel), St. Germain, Stewart Olsen, Stratton, Tardif, Tkachuk, Verner, Wallace, Wallin, Watt, Zimmer
The first list records senators present in the Senate Chamber during the course of the sitting.
An asterisk in the second list indicates a senator who, while not present during the sitting, was in attendance to business, as defined in subsections 8(2) and (3) of the Senators Attendance Policy.
PRAYERS
MESSAGES FROM THE HOUSE OF COMMONS
A message was brought from the House of Commons to return Bill S-1002, An Act to authorize the Industrial Alliance Pacific General Insurance Corporation to apply to be continued as a body corporate under the laws of Quebec,
And to acquaint the Senate that the Commons has passed this bill, without amendment.
WRITTEN DECLARATION OF ROYAL ASSENT
At 1:32 p.m., the Honourable the Speaker informed the Senate that the following communication had been received:
RIDEAU HALL
December 8, 2011
Mr. Speaker:
I have the honour to inform you that the Honourable Marie Deschamps, Puisne Judge of the Supreme Court of Canada, in her capacity as Deputy of the Governor General, signified royalassent by written declaration to the bill listed in the Schedule to this letter on the 8th day of December, 2011, at 8:30 a.m.
Yours sincerely,
Patricia Jaton
For the Secretary to the Governor General
The Honourable
The Speaker of the Senate
Ottawa
Schedule
Bill Assented To
Thursday, December 8, 2011
An Act to authorize the Industrial Alliance Pacific General Insurance Corporation to apply to be continued as a body corporate under the laws of Quebec (Bill S-1002)
SENATORS' STATEMENTS
Pursuant to rule 43(7), the Honourable Senator Cowan gave notice that he would raise a question of privilege regarding the consideration of Bill C-18 by the Senate in light of yesterday's ruling by the Honourable Mr. Justice Campbell of the Federal Court concerning the introduction of the said bill in Parliament.
Some Honourable Senators made statements.
DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS
Tabling of Documents
The Honourable Senator Carignan tabled the following:
Certificate of Nomination and biographical notes of MarioDion, the nominee for the position of Public Sector Integrity Commissioner.—Sessional Paper No. 1/41-621.
Document entitled: Joint Action Plan for the Canada-UnitedStates Regulatory Cooperation Council.—Sessional Paper No. 1/41-622.
Document entitled: Beyond the Border: A Shared Vision for Perimeter Security and Economic Competitiveness.—Sessional Paper No. 1/41-623.
Presentation of Reports from Standing or Special Committees
The Honourable Senator Day, Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on National Finance, presented its fifth report (Supplementary estimates (B), 2011-2012).
(The report is printed as an appendix at pages 723-756.)
The Honourable Senator Day moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Downe, that the report be placed on the Orders of the Day for consideration at the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The Honourable Senator Day, Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on National Finance, presented its sixth report (Bill C-13, An Act to implement certain provisions of the 2011 budget as updated on June 6, 2011 and other measures, without amendment).
The Honourable Senator Carignan moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Marshall, that the bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a third reading at the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Government Notices of Motions
With leave of the Senate,
The Honourable Senator Carignan moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Oliver:
That, at the beginning of Government Business on Monday, December 12, 2011, the Senate do resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole in order to receive Mr. Mario Dion respecting his appointment as Public Sector Integrity Commissioner; and
That the Committee of the Whole report to the Senate no later than one hour after it begins.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
ORDERS OF THE DAY
GOVERNMENT BUSINESS
Bills
Second reading of Bill C-29, An Act for granting to HerMajesty certain sums of money for the federal public administration for the financial year ending March 31, 2012.
The Honourable Senator Gerstein moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Braley, that the bill be read the second time.
After debate,
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The bill was then read the second time.
The Honourable Senator Carignan moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Comeau, that the bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a third reading at the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
A point of order was raised with respect to the process for studying the Estimates and the adoption of the related supply bills in the Senate.
After debate,
The Speaker Pro Tempore reserved his decision.
Second reading of Bill C-10, An Act to enact the Justice for Victims of Terrorism Act and to amend the State Immunity Act, the Criminal Code, the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act, the Corrections and Conditional Release Act, the Youth Criminal Justice Act, the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act and other Acts.
The Honourable Senator Runciman moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Stewart Olsen, that the bill be read the second time.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Tardif moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Fraser, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Second reading of Bill S-6, An Act respecting the election and term of office of chiefs and councilors of certain First Nations and the composition of council of those First Nations.
The Honourable Senator Patterson moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator MacDonald, that the bill be read the secondtime.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Tardif moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Fraser, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
OTHER BUSINESS
Senate Public Bills
Orders No. 1 and 2 were called and postponed until the nextsitting.
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Cordy, seconded by the Honourable Senator Peterson, for the second reading of Bill S-204, An Act to establish a national strategy for chronic cerebrospinal venous insufficiency (CCSVI).
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Carignan moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Oliver, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Reports of Committees
Orders No. 1 to 5 were called and postponed until the nextsitting.
Other
Orders No. 3, 20, 23, 17 (inquiries), 37, 2 (motions), 8, 16, 14, 18, 11 (inquiries) and 19 (motion) were called and postponed until the next sitting.
QUESTION OF PRIVILEGE
Pursuant to rule 43(8), the Senate proceeded to the consideration of the question of privilege of the Honourable Senator Cowan regarding the consideration of Bill C-18 by the Senate in light of yesterday's ruling by the Honourable Mr.Justice Campbell of the Federal Court concerning the introduction of the said bill in Parliament.
After debate,
The Speaker reserved his decision.
MOTIONS
The Honourable Senator Brazeau moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Segal:
That the Standing Senate Committee on Human Rights have the power to sit at 4 p.m. until 8 p.m. on Monday, December 12, 2011, even though the Senate may then be sitting, and that Rule95(4) be suspended in relation thereto.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
At 6:12 p.m., the sitting was suspended.
At 7:05 p.m., the sitting resumed.
SPEAKER'S RULING
I would like to thank all the honourable senators who participated in the discussion on this question of privilege. This is a very important question because it deals with the rights and powers of Parliament and more specifically, the Senate, with regard to the review of legislation as an independent element in our democratic system of government.
The concerns raised by the Leader of the Opposition deal with the rule of the law, a foundational principle in our society, to which both government and individuals are subject. I have had the opportunity to reflect upon the arguments and review the issue, together with procedural literature. I am now prepared to rule.
As I understand it, the basic argument to sustain the question of privilege is that the Senate is now examining a bill, C-18, that was presented to Parliament in violation of the requirements of the existing Canadian Wheat Board Act. This argument would lead to the conclusion that the Senate's study of Bill C-18 should be limited or constrained in some way. Particular importance is attached to a decision given yesterday by the Federal Court relating to requirements imposed under section 47.1 of the current Canadian Wheat Board Act. I will refrain from commenting on all aspects of the court decision in detail, which honourable senators are free to review as they wish. I will, however, note that the declaratory judgment states that "the validity of Bill C-18, and the validity and effects of any legislation which might become law as a result of Bill C-18 are not an issue in the present Application''. The court demonstrated respect for institutional comity and for Parliament's independent capacity to legislate.
The Parliament of Canada consists of the Queen, the Senate and the House of Commons. The two chambers follow their respective Rules and Standing Orders in their deliberations, as is their duty.
Let us briefly review what happened with BillC-18. The bill was introduced in the other place, and it was passed on November28. The next day, the Senate received a message from the House of Commons and, in accordance with the Rules of the Senate, the bill was placed on the Orders of the Day for second reading after the usual time period. The bill was then read a second time on December1, and sent to the Agriculture and Forestry Committee. Meanwhile, on November30, the Senate adopted a special order to determine the process to follow with regard to the committee's work on the bill.
Proceedings in the Senate on Bill C-18 have been in accordance with our Rules and have been in order. The court decision has no bearing on our parliamentary proceedings, as was recognized. Moreover, as Senator Segal noted, there would be a risk that accepting a question of privilege of this nature could have the serious, and unintended, consequence of impeding the undoubted privilege of Parliament and parliamentarians to deliberate and to legislate freely.
As previously indicated, the putative question of privilege pertains to the introduction of BillC-18. Basically, this question involves the interpretation of law. Thus, it does not fall under the Speaker's authority. The chair refers to the fundamental principle that the Speaker can rule only on procedural matters and not on questions of law. Page 636 of the second edition of House of Commons Procedure and Practice says that constitutional questions or questions of law cannot be addressed to the Speaker. Other Canadian works on parliamentary procedure and other decisions rendered in this chamber have emphasized this point. For example, page180 of the fourth edition of Bourinot and citation324 in the sixth edition of Beauchesne were mentioned.
As already noted, proceedings on Bill C-18 in the Senate have respected our Rules and practices. While there has been a court decision respecting the current Canadian Wheat Board Act, if anything was at issue with respect to section 47.1, it did not involve Parliament. The issue is, in essence, a matter of interpretation of the law, not of parliamentary procedure or privilege. As such, it does not meet with the requirements of rule43(1)(b), and there is no basis for determining that a primafacie question of privilege has been established.
With leave of the Senate,
The Honourable Senator Carignan moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Rivard:
That the Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Defence have the power to sit until 8 p.m. on Monday, December12, 2011, even though the Senate may then be sitting, and that Rule 95(4) be suspended in relation thereto.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
With leave,
The Senate reverted to Government Notices of Motions.
With leave of the Senate,
The Honourable Senator Carignan moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Poirier:
That when the Senate adjourns today, it do stand adjourned until Monday, December 12, 2011, at 6 p.m. and that rule 13(1) be suspended in relation thereto.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
REPORTS DEPOSITED WITH THE CLERK OF THE SENATE PURSUANT TO RULE 28(2):
Report on the operations of the Exchange Fund Account, together with the Auditor General's Report, for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2011, pursuant to the Currency Act, R.S.C.1985, c. C-52, sbs. 21(1).—Sessional Paper No. 1/41- 620.
ADJOURNMENT
The Honourable Senator Carignan moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Wallace:
That the Senate do now adjourn.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
(Accordingly, at 7:15 p.m. the Senate was continued until Monday, December 12, 2011 at 6 p.m.)
Changes in Membership of Committees Pursuant to Rule 85(4)
Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce
The Honourable Senator Tkachuk replaced the Honourable Senator Di Nino (December 8, 2011).
The Honourable Senator Massicotte replaced the Honourable Senator Losier-Cool (December 7, 2011).
The Honourable Senator Losier-Cool replaced the Honourable Senator Massicotte (December 7, 2011).
Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration
The Honourable Senator Dawson replaced the Honourable Senator Campbell (December 7, 2011).
Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs
The Honourable Senator Raine replaced the Honourable Senator Stratton (December 8, 2011).
Standing Senate Committee on National Finance
The Honourable Senator Eggleton, P.C., replaced the Honourable Senator Tardif (December 7, 2011).
The Honourable Senator Callbeck replaced the Honourable Senator Hubley (December 7, 2011).
The Honourable Senator Andreychuk replaced the Honourable Senator Wallin (December 7, 2011).
The Honourable Senator Peterson replaced the Honourable Senator Munson (December 7, 2011).
The Honourable Senator Tardif replaced the Honourable Senator Eggleton, P.C. (December 7, 2011).
The Honourable Senator Marshall replaced the Honourable Senator Meredith (December 7, 2011).
The Honourable Senator Munson replaced the Honourable Senator Dawson (December 7, 2011).